[Zope3-Users] Choosing between Bluebream, Zope2 and Grok

[Milind Khadilkar]

Hello all Zope Users!
We are trying to decide on a Zope platform for, say, the next five years.
We have developed small products on Zope2 and Zope3 between 2000 and 2008,
and in Grok over the past couple of years, off and on.
We are looking to build as per customer requirements, and it would be
common sense to choose the platform as per requirement. However, with a
small team size, we can't spread ourselves thin over the three
platforms...Pyramid, Django and GAE also keep beckoning....

We have seven revivable products in Zope2 (2.6 - 2.10), including one in
Plone. Some of them do not open in Zope 2.11...
Some of them use DTML for no reason now discernable.
Some of them use a very old version of ZODB.

We have one big product in Zope 3.3. Can we attempt converting it from
Zope 3 to Zope2?

We have no real work done in Grok, but there is a level of familiarity with
it. Newer members of the team know neither Zope2 nor Zope3.

Making use of our past work is an important criterion for us. Training new
team members is another...

What other things must we keep in mind when deciding on the platform? Any
pointers would help.

Sorry for this rambling question.
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[Thierry Florac]

Content preview: Hi, Le Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:45:50 +0530, Milind Khadilkar <***@gmail.com>
a écrit: > Hello all Zope Users! > We are trying to decide on a Zope platform
for, say, the next five > years. We have developed small products on Zope2
and Zope3 between > 2000 and 2008, and in Grok over the past couple of years,
off and on. > We are looking to build as per customer requirements, and it
would be > common sense to choose the platform as per requirement. However,
with > a small team size, we can't spread ourselves thin over the three >
platforms...Pyramid, Django and GAE also keep beckoning.... > > We have seven
revivable products in Zope2 (2.6 - 2.10), including one > in Plone. Some
of them do not open in Zope 2.11... > Some of them use DTML for no reason
now discernable. > Some of them use a very old version of ZODB. > > We have
one big product in Zope 3.3. Can we attempt converting it > from Zope 3 to
Zope2? > > We have no real work done in Grok, but there is a level of > familiarity
with it. Newer members of the team know neither Zope2 nor > Zope3. > > Making
use of our past work is an important criterion for us. > Training new team
members is another... > > What other things must we keep in mind when deciding
on the platform? > Any pointers would help. > > Sorry for this rambling question.

Thanks in advance for your answers. [...]

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Hi,

Le Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:45:50 +0530,

Hello all Zope Users!
We are trying to decide on a Zope platform for, say, the next five
years. We have developed small products on Zope2 and Zope3 between
2000 and 2008, and in Grok over the past couple of years, off and on.
We are looking to build as per customer requirements, and it would be
common sense to choose the platform as per requirement. However, with
a small team size, we can't spread ourselves thin over the three
platforms...Pyramid, Django and GAE also keep beckoning....
We have seven revivable products in Zope2 (2.6 - 2.10), including one
in Plone. Some of them do not open in Zope 2.11...
Some of them use DTML for no reason now discernable.
Some of them use a very old version of ZODB.
We have one big product in Zope 3.3. Can we attempt converting it
from Zope 3 to Zope2?
We have no real work done in Grok, but there is a level of
familiarity with it. Newer members of the team know neither Zope2 nor
Zope3.
Making use of our past work is an important criterion for us.
Training new team members is another...
What other things must we keep in mind when deciding on the platform?
Any pointers would help.
Sorry for this rambling question.
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Using Zope 2 for several years, I switched to Zope 3.3 probably five
years ago and our latest developments since two years are based on ZTK
and ZopeApp. We are really very happy with these!

Having small teams of developers, mainly coming from the Java world,
training them for recent environments was more "natural" and easier to
them than it was for Zope 2.

The main problem with these releases is that BlueBream "as is" is a
dead project; I only used it as a base to create my new development
environments based on recent releases of ZTK and ZopeApp packages.
These ZTK and ZopeApp packages are still maintained (last release was
in May, 2012) but don't seems to evolve much actually (even if
development work seems to be visible in Launchpad). Development
community on these packages don't seems to be very active or is, at
least, hard to find! Same for Grok, for which the last release was 18
months ago.

Excluding Django, Pyramid seems to be the most active project actually
among those you mentioned. And it can include many "old" Zope concepts
(ZODB, traversing...). But I didn't had any time to test it until now...

Best regards,
Thierry

[Milind Khadilkar]

Post by Thierry Florac
Hi,
Le Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:45:50 +0530,

Post by Milind Khadilkar
Hello all Zope Users!
We are trying to decide on a Zope platform for, say, the next five
years. We have developed small products on Zope2 and Zope3 between
2000 and 2008, and in Grok over the past couple of years, off and on.
We are looking to build as per customer requirements, and it would be
common sense to choose the platform as per requirement. However, with
a small team size, we can't spread ourselves thin over the three
platforms...Pyramid, Django and GAE also keep beckoning....
We have seven revivable products in Zope2 (2.6 - 2.10), including one
in Plone. Some of them do not open in Zope 2.11...
Some of them use DTML for no reason now discernable.
Some of them use a very old version of ZODB.
We have one big product in Zope 3.3. Can we attempt converting it
from Zope 3 to Zope2?
We have no real work done in Grok, but there is a level of
familiarity with it. Newer members of the team know neither Zope2 nor
Zope3.
Making use of our past work is an important criterion for us.
Training new team members is another...
What other things must we keep in mind when deciding on the platform?
Any pointers would help.
Sorry for this rambling question.
Thanks in advance for your answers.

Using Zope 2 for several years, I switched to Zope 3.3 probably five
years ago and our latest developments since two years are based on ZTK
and ZopeApp. We are really very happy with these!
Having small teams of developers, mainly coming from the Java world,
training them for recent environments was more "natural" and easier to
them than it was for Zope 2.
The main problem with these releases is that BlueBream "as is" is a
dead project; I only used it as a base to create my new development
environments based on recent releases of ZTK and ZopeApp packages.
These ZTK and ZopeApp packages are still maintained (last release was
in May, 2012) but don't seems to evolve much actually (even if
development work seems to be visible in Launchpad). Development
community on these packages don't seems to be very active or is, at
least, hard to find! Same for Grok, for which the last release was 18
months ago.
Excluding Django, Pyramid seems to be the most active project actually
among those you mentioned. And it can include many "old" Zope concepts
(ZODB, traversing...). But I didn't had any time to test it until now...
Best regards,
Thierry

Thanks, Thierry.
Actually, there is a recent Grok release that is a well-kept secret:
http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/1.5.4/versions.cfg
I got the above info when we got into some windows-based problem on Grok
and I communicated on the list.

Besides, the Grok developers feel, probably rightly so, that Grok is
more-or-less feature complete and that widely-spaced releases are to be
expected. Another explanation is (as quoted): "Another reason why Grok
releases do not happen too often these times is,
that Grok meanwhile is merely an umbrella package for a couple of
outsourced packages (these grokcore.xxx packages). These packages are
frequently updated but normally only as bugfix releases which leaves the
Grok version number as-is."

Thanks, again.
Regards
Milind Khadilkar